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Sarah's Decisions

The new game needs way more items you can scavenge, collect, equip, trade, modify or use to build other items. In Rebuild 2 the only items you can find are equipment, but I want to expand that to include other stuff.

  • Survivors can equip two items: a weapon and a nonweapon
  • Equipment menu will be easier to use and feature an "auto-equip" option
  • Some equipment will require a perk or skill level to use or to use (well)
  • New weapons and nonweapons
  • You'll find resources that do nothing on their own, but can be used to craft items, upgrade buildings or trade to other factions
  • There will be ammo and you use it up on missions but you'll never run out - more ammo means bonus to guns
  • New building type: engineering lab, lets you craft things or tear stuff down into scrap
  • Cars will be an equippable in lategame item that extends mission range and/or makes long-distance missions safer

--NerosShadow (talk) 13:44, 4 July 2013 (UTC)==Discussion: Flavor== Sarahnorthway (talk)

So I've got the realism issue that I want vehicles to be something you don't have a lot of, or don't have until later in the game, or they need a tech or something, but realistically there'd be hundreds of cars everywhere full of gas that you could just hotwire and take. So... what if cars are so noisy (compared to the dead silence of a dead city) that they usually attract zombies, and any advantage you get by using one to get somewhere safely will be countered by there being a horde of alerted undead on you as soon as you stop. Maybe you need to research a way to make the cars run silently before you can equip them or whatever and use them on missions. Makeshift uber-mufflers, or maybe electric cars recharged via gasoline-run generators.

Karrachr000 (talk) You could leave that decision up to the players. Lets say that they have a fort that has large numbers and they are well armed, but they haven't done much research. If they thought that they could survive the resulting attack, they could use the unmodified vehicle.

Alaric (talk) Hotwiring is easier than breaking the steering wheel lock and in newer cars it is practicly impossible to hotwire them without very rare expert tools. And i think that newer cars can drive very silently. Perhaps there could be older, noisy but reliable cars and the new cars could be vice versa.

Darklim (talk) In the mighty "Zombie Survival Guide" (an actual book containing tons of zombie knowledge), it's said that anything with a motor can - and WILL - do enough noise for zombies to spot it. Even the latest ones. What could be done is including a tech like "Motor silencers" (prerequisites: Mechanical stuff, Silent guns) to unlock the path of the road vehicle. Also, the very same Guide suggest a really fun way to kill zombies: the rodeo. Get as many cars as possible, let'em roar, and let the wheels face the undead. Literally.

NerosShadow (talk)Well....if anything, The approach i feel would be most realistic and fun is used by some other games. It needs adapted to this game though. So, yes there are thousands of cars, yes they have gas, but after exposure, the initial chaos of the outbreak, looting, crashes, riots, and overtime the elements of nature, most cars will be disabled. You could find a car thats not totally broke, (ie not in flames or missing a tire, but anything in between) and the player has to find the parts to fix the car. You could keep it simple like instead of a new carburetor and air filter, engine parts. Maybe you could get lucky and find a fixed car in a garage. Need a skilled mechanic to fix the car if broken. And a skilled scavenger or something to siphon fuel. Not everyone knows how to do that. Also over time as skill increases and you find the parts you could apply upgrades to cars, to add to the already substantial protections given, improve durability, add spikes or something, personal customization, colors and such, and maybe if you find a humvee, add a M2 Browning or MK 19 grenade launcher on top, for a convertible like a rear mounted gun or removing the passenger windshield so he can shoot out front. Also maintenance, blown tire, new spark plugs, fuel lines, brakes, all increase chance of damage to car and survivors, also chance of crappy drivers to wreck car, maybe causing one of the above problems and any unmentioned.

--Dynax (talk) 15:53, 12 July 2013 (UTC)I would consider livestock such as horse and Ox to be the ultimate technology, as funny as that sounds. Fuel will go bad and is still finite. Horses will be quieter and not require refueling and scavenging other than feeding them of course. Cars are a limited time item in a post apocalyptic world.

ZomBieKillEr (talk) ^ That is true Dynax, but livestock (depending on how long the zombies have been around) would most likely be all Dead. So the likely hood of someone finding a horse during the zombie take-over, would be about 1 in 500. So yes, livestock would be a VERY rare thing to find, and working cars (because of looting) would also be very rare.

Discussion: Equippable Items

Should survivors be able to equip multiple items? Have body slots for one weapon, one hat, one pet, etc?

  • Armor / different outfits
  • More guns for gun nerds
  • Slingshot, crossbow
  • Swords, Clubs, polearms, throwing axes
  • Flashlights, radio, flag, games, a musical instrument? (for leaders/recruitment)
  • Crowbar, hammer, toolbox, electrical kit, gunsmith's kit (See below) (builders)
  • Knifes,shovels,switchblades,spears, and a pair of scizzors (for anyone)

Equipment that might be used in Combat:

  • Grenades: small crappy ones and big scary ones
  • Medkits used up to prevent an injury or maybe save a life
  • Smoke bombs or some equivalent that would work on zombies (raw meat thrown as a distraction?)
  • Toolkits used to make building jobs go faster
  • Whistle: distracts zombies so the whistle blower gets wounded but saves the other guy's life
  • Dogs :( in Rebuild 2 and now 3 if you have a dog and would have died, instead your dog dies and you live

Ajdedo (talk) In future versions, equipping items should be automated or eliminated.

Woolfe (talk) Totally disagree with Ajdedo. Equipping items could be annoying, but that was more of an interface issue than a problem with concept.

Kakinaga: Totally disagree with Ajdedo. Equiping is useful for new survivor and I think this is not annoying because you didn't need to equip the expert ones (lv 10 survivor).

Alaric (talk) Although i'm a "gun nerd", they should come with danger of attracting more zombies because of the sound. There could be few silenced guns (lets say about 5% of found weapons). If there would be a manufacturing building, they could be built (because they are not so hard to make). Would there be an easy way to limit how big items survivor could take on a mission? I wouldn't want to run through the city with a chainsaw (it would also be noisy) in my hands. It could still be used as a defensive weapon and in construction.

Limiting items to certain class is in my opinion too restrictive. If I have only 1 survivor (who happens to be fighter) available to put on a Scavenging-mission, it would feel weird if he/she couldn't use Binoculars... Rebuild 2 system was in that aspect excellent for me.

I think the limit should depend on weight and equipment type. For example:

  • Shotgun-->Needs 10 weight
  • 9mm-->Needs2 weight

You can't handle more than 2 weapons. Mikeyg10744- You should probably out it so one thing is a weapon and you can equip a distraction tool like fireworks and if you want put transportation equipment to.

Loqman (talk)

Enable Special Bonus Items :

  • Food convertor : it converts ten food to a random item : 10% Junk _ 40% an item with less value _ 30% an item with same value _ 15% Special item , 5% super special item !

(less value): * First aid kit , pistol , cat , dog etc...

(same value item) * Make up Box (usable one females):(+0.1% Happiness per one used)[if the user have 25 females and find 20 make up box he can arrange 2%happiness ) this items can be used one time

(same value item) * Jewel (usable on females): +0.1% happiness

(special item) * Dead fireworks : the player can use this item on one place on the map it gathers all zombie around that place come to there and other areas around become clear from zombies but the area that firework use on becomes extremely dangerous and can't be fortified about 3 turns!

(special item) * Music of Dead : this makes zombies dance around the fortified area and three turns of peace comes !

(super special item) * dynamites : destroying one area to ground with its zombies permanently !

(super special item) * katana : the person who holds it can attack singly to every area alone (but in 3 turns and just for convert)

(super special item) * magic wound : it enhances ability of dynamites , magical dynamite can kill the zombie horde and player wins the game

--Dynax (talk) 16:09, 12 July 2013 (UTC) If London the dog doesn't resurface in Rebuild 3 I may have to run away and become a little hobo. Whoever put that reference in the game knows what I'm refering to. Those inside references are funny to run across in games. Thank you for that. Keep the dogs and the subtle references please.

Discussion: Weapon Effects / Training

(Cloven) Rather than have a basic attack stat for the survivor that a weapon adds +x to the value of, have you considered the idea of the survivors damage output being derived from the weapon they use with there career / training affecting what weapon(s) they can use and how effective they are. For example, a shotgun in the hands of a trained soldier is going to be alot more effective than in the hands of a scientist however a scientist with a shotgun (once trained / skilled whatever) is a lot more likely to kill zed than any unarmed soldier, even if they have an attack of 10! :P

SarahNorthway: perhaps anyone can wield a baseball bat or shotgun, but unusual/large weapons like flamethrowers and machine guns require a specific "heavy weapons" perk that you earn through training or as a random event. Likewise survivors could get perks that give a bonus to melee weapons.

Anthiena Some weapons may have different effects:

  • A flamethrower may very well set things on fire (random chance) which is good against zombies but it means that until the fire is out, you shouldn't really reclaim it, it's a big hazard.
  • Some weapons are loud and may draw human attention, good or bad
  • Some may be hard to repair when they break-a slingshot is much easier to replace than a shotgun, for example. Also, bullets IRL are easy enough if you have the tools. That being in itself the catch.

Rayman (talk) If there will be any Grenades (small crappy ones and big ones), should there be a chance that the explosion might even destroy part of that building, or maybe even destroy some of the loot/food that was in there? Also if the person who threw it, should there be a chance that they got caught in the explosion? Just some suggestions.

Idea: Automatic equipment

Miguelinileugim (talk)

If you've ever played Rebuild 2 in huge size and ever conquered the map you will have suffered the incredible hassle of equipping every survivor with items and removing them from high level survivors who don't require them among other things.

Well, my idea is to design an AI to autoequip survivors, I mean a programmable AI with several options (some examples):

  • Equip:
    • Highest level survivors first
    • Lowest level survivors first (whose major skill is the item's major skill)
  • If an item has two skill bonus then:
    • Use the highest skill bonus first (check or uncheck) and follow this order (you may rearrange the order) e.g:
      • Shooting
      • Research
      • Building
      • Scavenge
      • Leadership
    • Multiply each skill by a factor and then prioritize the skill according to it, if equal follow this order (you may rearrange the order and the factors) e.g:
      • Shooting-->3
      • Research-->2
      • Building-->2
      • Scavenge-->1
      • Leadership-->1


Rayman (talk) Liking it, but I also want to suggest an option, basically "Unequip All" or something like that. I don't think I need to explain what it does.

Batch: Types of vehicles

Not sure how this would work in game mechanics, but could be fun. Don't know whether this would be items that characters would equip, or techs that would give citywide bonuses, or what.

Check out Organ Trail for a web browser game, mostly text, based around making a long journey in a zombie apocalypse. It's based on Oregon Trail, about wagon train pioneers. Both could be useful inspiration for incorporating vehicles into Rebuild.

Miguelinileugim (talk)

Too many variables already, adding vehicles might be excessive, though I have an helicopter and a couple of boats (as upgrades) already :)

Motor vehicles

All vehicles with motors would require scavenging for, or maybe even refining fuels (like in the Mad Max sequels - either pump and refine, or come up with alternative fuels like methane, or converting vehicles to electric for use with solar/wind/etc power generation). Repairs may also be needed. Different types may grant different benefits:

  • Trucks and cargo vans. Useful for bringing in crops for farming, useful for bringing in big hauls when scavenging, and for moving construction materials.
  • Buses and passenger vans. Useful or necessary for raids on biker gangs and cults? Or also for attacking zombies not immediately outside compound walls? They could also increase the chance of recruitment if needed.
  • Armored vehicles. May include the armored cars seen moving valuables for banks and retailers before the zombie apocalypse, as well as police/SWAT armored personnel carriers (APCs) in big cities. Would give a combat bonus, and be even more useful against armed humans than the zombies. Massive fuel consumption.
  • Motorcycles. Why should those biker gangs have all the fun? Useful for scavenging (smaller hauls), scouting, recruiting, and anything else where speed and better mobility would help. Low fuel requirement.
  • Tractors. Farm bonus.
  • Bulldozers, etc. Construction bonus. Might be useful for crushing zombies right outside the walls. Big fuel users and may make a lot of noise.
  • Cars. Could give smaller bonuses in just about all the above categories, with average fuel consumption.

Non-motor land vehicles

NerosShadow (talk) (Are all more quiet than motor vehicles, except for electric scooters perhaps, or a segway.......they see me rollin....they moanin...)

  • Bicycles. Quietly add a bit of speed and distance to any walking units. This could mean scouting bonus, or just about anything - scavenging, possibly with slightly bigger hauls when combined with a bike trailer, or recruiting farther away.
  • Animals. Horses, camels and the like for riding, perhaps with terrain bonuses? Pack mules for moving goods? Animals may require feed, veterinary care, harness and gear, and barns.
  • Animals would also add to the risk of a mission such as drawing in more zombie attention or getting spooked and running off. Schurill (talk)
  • Carts. Pulled by people or animals, could slightly increase scavenging and farming hauls, shorten construction times, etc. Could include different types and sizes, from children's wagons to shopping carts to Amish horse buggies and farm wagons.
  • Skateboards? Roller skates? Sleds? Stretchers? Palanquins, litters, and rickshaws?

(Zambia) A chariot pulled by domesticated zombies! The rifts can drive them around laying waste to all who oppose them!

Aircraft

Gliders, hot air balloons, ultralights, small planes, and such could be useful for scouting. Parachutes for a surprise advantage on raids against other humans?

Miguelinileugim (talk)

Aircraft would have many uses, here are some ideas:

  • Scouting: The most obvious one, once you find a balloon you would be able to scout 3x3 (or even 4x4) squares in a single turn. Doing the same with other aircrafts would be too expensive (in fuel)
  • Pesticides and fertilizers: This would greatly greatly improve harvests, though there's a little chance a random survivor will get sick thanks to this
  • Parachutes: This is specially useful for attacking an unprotected part of an enemy faction
  • Anti-zombie chemicals: Useful for spreading the cure, a lethal virus or something like that.

NerosShadow (talk)or chemical warfare against factions and humans......late game

  • Transport: Very useful to rescue people from factions a turn before they're killed by zombies and special events
  • Attack: An helicopter with a nice machine gun is 100% invincible against zombies (so be very very careful with balancing uses, you might just strictly limit fuel for helicopter as in Rebuild 2) and even if not invincible, still very powerful against factions

NerosShadow (talk)I wouldn't say invincible, but unless surrounded by a horde, zeds cant kill it, if you find a H-61 Maverik(pave low for cod players)then very hard for humans to make go boom, if you find a little bird, a team of 3 with hunting rifles and good shots could take it out

Boats

Only useful if the location is on a waterway, but if on a river, lake, or ocean, boats could open relatively zombie-free routes to different areas, could be used for moving people or cargo, and could create temporary safe havens when the shore becomes too dangerous. Motors would still require fuel, and motor boats are faster and don't rely on the wind. But sail was the best long distance transport for a long time and sailboats are still in widespread recreational use.

Miguelinileugim (talk)

Boats would have many uses, if we take into account that zombies must be able to swim pretty well, then there are some ideas:

  • Fishing: The most obvious one, river square + fishing boat = food (as much as a farm, or slightly more)
  • Scouting: Only available for motorboats, which are faster than zombies
  • Transport: Very useful to rescue people from factions a turn before they're killed by zombies and special events
  • Attack: Bonus against zombies (zombies are weaker when swimming)

Batch: Resources

I'd like to be able to find things that are totally useless on their own, but are valuable when trading and may be used to build things or in specific events.

  • Oil
  • Gasoline (until you start using cars)
  • Querosene (until you find and repair an helicopter)
  • Reinforced steel (until you find a way to melt and use it)
  • Sheet metal
  • Lumber
  • Barb/razor wire
  • Brick/stone (possibly get this from ruined buildings?)
  • Iodine(to clean dirty water) and some money
  • Water

Schurill (talk)

  • Money for itself would have no use in an apocalyptic trade system, though I would love the concept of some games of using ancient modern junk as coinage i.e watches.
  • It's probably too complicated, but maybe each faction group of similar factions would have their own coin that fluctuates with the fortunes of said faction. For example, if you helped faction A, they pay you in coin A, Faction B will trade you 2 crates of ammo for your coin A, but faction C likes faction A more so values their coin more giving 6 crates for same amount. Special Banker faction (good job for Gustave) gives exchange rates for coins so you can turn that stash of C's you got in a raid for some B's, but you were to overly extended to send a squad to help out B so they got hit by a rogue zombie attack loosing resources causing that stock pile of B's of yours to be worth half as much.
  • Less complicated but same vein of thought, a single coin, for respect of the setting, that is its own resource in trade listings but still fluctuates in values based on the banker faction.

I think that any monetary system will take lots of time to develop. People have to start trusting that if he trades his items for coins, he will be able to give them for someone else and get something in return. And in this kind of "End of the World" situation, I would think that trust is in short supply.

So, how about a system where small, low-value items found from scavenging are all classified as "Trade items". That way survivors could find items of value but it would not be money. It would be items that has real practical value. It would be matter of choice if they would be given description: batteries, spices, watches, screwdrivers etc. (this was used in the game Rage) or would the player just get a message: "Survivor found 7 Trade Items and 3 Food".


Alaric (talk)

In RB1 and RB2, the thing that I thought was funny is they never seemed to run out of barbed wire to extend the fence. I believe that there should be more than just food as a primary resource. There should also be a generalized building materials (sheet metal, plywood, nails, fencing, ect), food, medicine, ammo, money and luxuries (things that make living easier). When scavenging, it may produce random amounts of each of the 6 resources, or certain building types would favor one or more types. For example, if you scavange, or reclaim a suburb, you would get much more food and luxuries than you would building materials or medicine. Instead of having "some food" or "lotsa food", you can show a general percentage of total resources present, and each time a scavenging run is performed on that area, the number will drop. When you reclaim an area, the remaining resources would still be available to scavenge even though it is a safe area until available resources reaches 0%.

Runzwsissors (talk) When you go to reclaim an area, you would need a certain number of building materials depending on how many square sides you are going to build around. Once it is built, the fences that you take down between that area and previously held areas are removed and put back into inventory. All buildings being used should have a person to operate them to make them useful (ie, a scientist would operate the hospital, an unskilled worker would operate the field, a soldier would operate the police station, ect.) The more operated buildings, the greater the overall effect (two manned police stations would give a better defensive bonus than 1 operated and 1 untended). If a member is hurt and goes to the hospital, medicine decreases. If you get hit by a horde, ammo decreases based on the amount of operated defensible positions. All items should be auto equipped for optimal performance on the defensive, and when a mission completes, the item should auto unequip and go back to usable stock (equip items as you send people out). As far as money goes, I think it is best to use whatever currency was used before the outbreak, at greatly inflated prices due to the money to survivor ratio. A days rations would be several hundred dollars for food for a day for one person. Each time a zombie is killed you would get whatever money is in that zombie's wallet. Just some food for thought. Great job on an addictive game!

Kakinaga (talk): I think some items like luxuries (diamond, gold, etc) is still trade-able with "Gustav" or "the Government". They can trade it for ammo, food, medicine, or might weapon. Still... Money is not valuable ones during this recession.

Xiaolaoshu (talk) I think resources should be relatively basic: fuel, water, food, building materials and (maybe) chemicals, ammunition and medicine. And while these are very broad categories, we can assume that they are being managed somewhat effectively and really there is an abundance of them in an abandoned city. Improved technologies would allow more resources to be gathered/generated or fewer needed to accomplish mission. I don't think more resources are needed as items can handle almost anything else. For example, finding some computers might improve learning and research or a game system might give a moral bonus but we don't need an electronics resource.

Batch: Crafting

  • Pipe bombs
  • Pieced together armor
  • Nailed bat

NerosShadow (talk)

  • Flame throwers
  • IEDs
  • Spears
  • Silencers
  • Lockpick kits?
  • Improvised firearms and ranged weapons (1 shot rifles, shotguns,handguns. Possible upgradeable or improved upon for magazines and such, crossbows and bows)
  • Healing items like gauze

Weapons that require certain resources to build

  • Flamethrower (gasoline)
  • Rocket launcher (explosives)
  • Traps

Items that must be researched first

  • Electric fencing
  • Better traps such as spike pits, trip wires.

NerosShadow (talk)Guns aren't as common as candy, or at least ammunition isn't, less reliability on guns, more improv and melee, also, item decay. guns may not break but they do jam if not cared for, and boards do crack, but a metal bat won't ever, machetes need sharpened, chainsaws oiled, ect. I do agree with the break down idea, not Dead Zone though haha

(Vanstrom) I think crafting is a great idea, makes scavenging a lot more useful, in my last playthrough of Rebuild 2, I always sent out my best scavengers and like 95% of the time they brought back a baseball bat, instead of always finding completely put together equipment, finding certain parts would be good. Then you just have a factory building, assign a worker to it, and then there is a list of all the items you can create, if you can't make it, it will be shaded out gray. If you CAN make it, then it will be lit up, you click on it and it will tell you how many days it will take to make it (Sort of like a laboratory) And maybe each time you make the item, the time goes down since you already know how. And maybe you can include blueprints that you can find or something. I'm not sure.

Sarahnorthway (talk) What if you can break down items you don't need, so that baseball bat becomes wood or pistols become "gun parts" that can be reconstructed into bigger or better things.

Karrachr000 (talk) I agree with Sarah. I like the idea of breaking things down for crafting, but my fear is that this game will go the way of 'The Last Stand: Dead Zone'

Schurill (talk) Please don't that. Last Stand: Dead Zone was fun, but in no way was it The Last Stand sequel that I got all excited to see another of.

Weapons that can be upgraded together

Rayman (talk) And by this I mean like those army rifles with knives attached to the end of them, so a player can be creative with their weapons. (Just a suggestion, I guess.)

And the list of weapons can be crafted together with some other weapons or items you found while scavenging, such as: Pistol:

  • Silencer
  • Extended Magazine
  • Better Rear Sight (One of those attachable Rear Sights to stuff onto the top of a pistol or rifle)
  • Laser Sight (Although might attract attention to the pointed area, so maybe even a tool to destract zombies, maybe that can be an item, a simple laser pointer!)
  • Metal Recoil Guide Rod (Metal Recoils hardly break, and are infinity times better than the plastic ones, although they also hardly break, the break much more frequently than metal. In other words, the gun will be more reliable.)
  • Torch

So I may have been a bit carried away on a few of the upgradables, but I wanted everyone to know what I'm talking about. That's just one example. Others could be like I said before, a knife attached to a rifle, maybe a torch on it too. If anyone feels like writing a few upgrades to weapons, just add them below. (Although I wish it would be possilbe to use a silencer on a chainsaw and for it to work silently.)

Batch: Building

A factory that builds things after a few types of materials(or maybe even just one). You'd use a certain skill to build things, either with a "catalog" of things to build with material prices or you throw materials at a creator and they make something random. The better the skill, the more options/better stuff you build. You could also scrap things with increasing returns based on a skill.

Miguelinileugim (talk)

Well, though it might complicate too much the game, it might be a good idea to have a "items tree" where some resources can be processed to make items and other resources which can be used to build even more advanced items and resources.

Factories would allow these processes, a basic factory with standard workers and an advanced factory with >5 craft level workers.

Though, this might complicate the game too much.

Darklim (talk) Might, or might not. I think that this problem can be related to Civilization: adding options will let mastermind players rejoice in the hardest difficulty, while casual and people who wish to ignore some aspects of the game can always decide to play without some features. As a matter of fact, when I don't feel like calculating precisely how to get the most out of each of my citizens or just want to play Vanilla style, kill-recruit-take-reclaim-restart, I just lower the game's difficulty, sit back, and enjoy. I don't know if my personal experience can be taken as significant, but I think that "more options" is always a safe bet. Just make sure to balance the game so every players will play as he wishes (e.g. a way to trade crafting resources, so players will get more food/survivors/reputation/whatever instead of building stuff).

Miguelinileugim (talk) So, do you say that not only difficulty should be an option but complexity too? Well, if nightmare mode is 100% complex and 100% hard and easy mode incentives players to play with more complexity and difficulty, then it might be a good idea.

However, players might just finish the game with low difficulty and 50% complexity, thus enjoying a very little of the possibilities of this game.

Though, a really long tutorial with progressive complexity and difficulty (and a "skip" option) would be ideal.

Darklim (talk) Wow. I... did not actually thought of it like that. I only considered the fact that there should be some way to convert elements of a certain gameplay tool into elements of another that interest you. But yeah; setting a complexity level could be pretty interesting actually. Let's get technical: how? I suggest that an AI control the sides of the game that you don't want to deal with ("order subordinate to...". This may works).

Miguelinileugim (talk) Well, that's basically sacrificing complexity for difficulty, so players will have to either manage everything with 100% efficiency or having an incompetent AI doing things for them...

Great idea! To the hell with complexity levels, this is the best way to do it!

Darklim (talk) The AI need not to be incompetent. As long as you tell her exactly what you want her to do (like: "GUSTAV: Scavenging: buy. Weapons: do nothing. Science: sell. Leadership: do nothing. Building: buy"). So they can have their own pseudo-minmaxing AI that they designed themseleves, but that won't be as efficient as someone actually getting knee-deep in trades.

Miguelinileugim (talk) Awesome! So fully configurable AI, I meant that the AI would be incompetent as programming a really good AI is extremely hard, but if it is configurable then is perfect.

I mean, it won't make the game less complex, but It'll save hours of tedious micromanagement!

Batch: Traps

Saarkin (talk)

  • Foot Traps
  • Spike Pits
  • Caltrops
  • Moat
  • Snares
  • Distraction Meat Trap - Hang them up in a tree some distance from the wall to slow some attackers and allow you a better chance to kill them before they get to you.
  • Cattle Grate - For those who don't know a cattle grate is a metal grate in the ground with slats in the bars wide enough for the zombies feet to slip into, thus arresting their progress and possibly even breaking their legs.
  • Fire Pits: As a downside burns through fuel resources but can dispose of many attackers easily
  • Axe on a Rake Handle: Zombie steps on the rake and it flips up and hits him in the head
  • Electric fences, requires electricity and charge up but makes it extremely safe to defend the fort, slight chance to electrocute oneself and spend 3 days healing.

Sarahnorthway (talk) Maybe part of a tech tree branch of fence upgrades that effect the whole fort. Would be very effective against raids, but how does electricity affect zombies?

  • I would say the electricity would kill them or at least damage them since they wouldn'tlet go of the fence and burn or melt with enough power. Mainly the above traps are to slow them down and provide a better chance to kill them.Saarkin (talk)

Miguelinileugim (talk)

I have to disagree with you Sarah, zombies mustn't be superhuman killing machines, that would be too unrealistic.

They must be weak, only strong through sheer numbers, and above everything they must be human, or at least human enough for players to feel sad about them. If you make them invulnerable supersoldiers you'll kill the realism and all their humanity.

Mikeyg10744- If there's going to be traps you have to put hunting. Like a forest and then in their you might see a deer or a beaver or a squirl etc or a bear. Although you might need a big gun or else, and if animals can be effected do a rabies effect.

Maybe a "zombie repelent" to have the same effects as a perimeter, but way cheaper and easy to set, with the difference that it's temporary and requires more advanced technology.

Woolfe (talk) Rather than a repellent I would have thought a "Zombie Attractor" would be more obvious. Ie you get an old battery powered portable stereo, put some music in it set it somewhere out of reach and turn it on. Zombies get attracted by noise, thus drawing them to the stereo. This could be used to help by drawing Zombies to an area or away from an area.

If there's going to be traps you have to put hunting. Like a forest and then in their you might see a deer or a beaver or a squirrel etc or a bear. Although you might need a big gun or else, and if animals can be effected do a rabies effect. If you don't like don't put it in the final product just trying to help.

Batch: Ammo

Not sure I want you to have to manage ammo, it seems too fiddly and frustrating to run out, but it would be good to have something you always need to trade for (either ammo or scrap metal to make ammo). Is it too unrealistic to have an abstract "bullet" type that fits in every gun?

(Wizzid) I agree with the micro management, but would still like to see a one size bullet that fits all. Just adds a little bit of realism and makes people think of other strategies.

(Cloven) The thing with adding ammo as a limited resource is it can be hard to balance, either theres not enough and you have to complete your missions asap and play much more aggresively which can be kinda stressful for some gamers, or theres way to much and it kind of becomes pointless. Perhaps it could be limited to harder difficulties as an added challenge?

(Anthiena) Ammo is a thing that should be accounted for. One of my biggest worries in playing zombie games was running low on ammo. Guns should be breakable, I think. A builder could come across a gun store-they are really in common in some areas and they could certainly use some gunsmithing equipment to fix guns or make bullets. Hand-operated bullet presses are a real life thing. You'd need to find them among antique stores and specialized ammo stores, though. That would be a worry, both against zombies and against humans.

(Zambia) Zip guns would be a good addition (little cobbled together guns that fire one bullet and can be adapted to different rounds). If you are going to incorporate crafting of weapons, this could be the start of that tree. From there move up to muzzle-loaders/blunderbus type weapons, then up to making actual guns.

Reloading presses are not too hard to come buy. A typical pawn shop should have one or two in there. It's not hard to reload ammo if you have the right tools. The caps are about the only thing you can't re-create, but places that have reloading supplies usually stock them by the hundreds. Bullets can be re-cast from spare lead or other metals. Black powder is common in places that sell reloading supplies. Crude black powder can be made from uncommon but not rare materials, but refining it to the point where it can be used in modern cartridges is very tough. Finding a copy of the anarchist's cookbook would be a big boon on the research tree for soldier types.

Woolfe (talk) I am of the opinion that Ammo could be quite common, so lots and lots out there, BUT unless you develop the tech to make bullets, the ammo will be gradually used up. So assuming you start in the police station, it would have an amount of ammo that should last a fair while, but everytime you are doing missions with guns, you would be using it up. Especially with lower skilled characters. So over time your ammo would start to dry up if you haven't replenished it. Especially if you add factions that are specifically looking for ammo and weapons etc, and might go to great lengths to get them before you do. Or even try and steal them from you.

Alaric (talk) Agree with micro management but i would still like at least two kinds of bullets: Pistol and Rifle. Those two are so far apart from each other in every respect that making them use one bullet is like building fixing bicycle using truck parts :) Ammo amount should be limited but not scarce. You could make it a difficulty setting like "Easy: USA, Hard: UK". Reloading should be very simple, perhaps to just finding "Ammo reloading kit" and then making it in factory.

(Vanstrom) Yeah, ammo would be good. It would mean you need to evenly divide your amount of ammo, the more ammo you give, the more likely you are to survive, but if you don't leave a good portion of ammo at the police station/mall (Whatever is where you are on guard duty), then your city is likely to be overrun. I think the same should happen with food. It costs a certain amount of food for trips, or something. Not sure. Anyways, being able to equip different things like your clothes and weapons and misc stuff is good, you shouldn't just have only one item. There SHOULD, however, be a requirement on some items. For example, you can always equip a pistol, but for like a shotgun your attack needs to be 3 or more.

Sarahnorthway (talk) In the original prototype each mission had a food price. Now survivors just eat one food per day and it's enough. Also, I don't exactly know my guns but I'm under the impression that pistols take more skill to use than shotguns.

Rayman (talk) Yeah, with shotguns you hardly need any accuracy, just pull the trigger and let the pellets spray. Unless they are too close and you're using a 10 gauge shotung, which I doubt the game would have because it would make it too complex. With pistols you need accuracy, and more if they are further.

Batch: Microcontrollers

(Thanatopian_hypnosis) This is probably not suited for her game but i thought I'd throw in my idea. What about having micro controllers and various small electronics parts (capacitors,transformers,resistors etc.) you can scavenge and build items (radio, lights, traps, laser sight, night vision, infrared detectors, alarm systems, phone/communication systems, etc.) maybe add a very basic programming logic for making switches. I could help make recipes if needed ;).

(Killerajq) I partly agree to Thanatopian_hypnosis idea and partly not. The bracket starting from radio is fine(first the items be found by research in the labs and then installed). But the idea of said 'small electronics parts' comes into the element of crafting and time management that u have to search for the item and then be able to combine it to form something or in this case powerup something which also brings forth usage of ingame cash which according to me is quite bothersome. Sorry if i offended anyone.(P.S. check Sarahnorthway profile on Kongregate for my opinions). Thanks.

Sarahnorthway (talk) Microcontroller programming is a little out of the park for this game, but you might collect a generic "electronic parts" resource that could be used to build or fix radios and detection systems, trade to the Scientist faction and repair plot buildings like the helicopter or power plant.

(Lostntime1) Use scraps (metal, parts, or just bullets) that depending on the weapon you use a different amount of scraps. Upgrading weapons/gunsmith may decrease scrap usage for guns or for specific guns.

Rayman (talk) So can you at least add Headware into the game, such as Night Vision Goggles? We must! We simply must! Muuuuuuuuuuuust...

Batch: Other items

(Deadzflame)

  • Vehicles(for taking large amounts of supplies supplies and getting survivors around faster)
  • Poisonous gas (that can kill other factions and zombies but has a chance of coming back and damaging you so you need a gas mask)
  • Gas masks

(Zambia)

  • Batteries (to power other devices and help research electricity)
  • Farming tools (help crops grow) Hoes, sickles, wheelbarrows, hydroponics?
  • Musical instruments raise happiness or kill zombies with your stratocaster (or banjo[1])
  • Bear traps for capturing zombies
  • Other leadership tools than just hats. How about day-planners or PDAs (once the electricity is back on)? Self-improvement books?

(xFuSiioN) there should be moral raising items like video games that need batteries and when you research electricity you would get small tvs or something like that.

Batch: More item slots

KlNGEDY0 (talk)

Maybe you could have 3 slots, Primary, Secondary and Support Primary being a firearm of sorts, secondary being a grenade or melee item and support being a passive such as a medkit. Would allow diversity into some of the classes. Certain classes will have access to limited slots for example, builders can have secondaries and supports whilst scientists only have supports, soldiers and leaders having access to all three, scavengers having primaries and support while civilians only have access to support. Maybe with a school it could be upgraded so they can have more slots.

For weapons I was thinking of having civilian grade and military grade, civilian being more common but weaker and military being rarer but more powerful e.g. AK47 for civilians and M4A1 for military.

Miguelinileugim (talk)

Personally, I think that this would make micromanagement even worse.

Batch: Types of weapons

Miguelinileugim (talk) Though this suggestion may backfire and be used to overcomplicate the game instead of just polishing the concepts, I'll risk it all proposing a classification for weapons:

  • Melee: Disarmed, knifes, axes, chainsaws etc.
    • Very unsafe (dramatically increases risk)
    • Easy to find (decreases rarity)
    • Moderately powerful (no effect)
  • Short range: Pistols, shotguns, assault rifles etc.
    • Somewhat safe (no effect)
    • Normal to find (no effect)
    • Weak (decreases offense skill)
  • Medium range: Machine guns, rifles etc.
    • Somewhat safe (no effect)
    • Difficult to find (increases rarity)
    • Powerful (increases offense skill)
  • Long range: Sniper rifles, RPGs etc.
    • Safe (decreases risk)
    • Difficult to find (increases rarity)
    • Moderately powerful (no effect)
  • Special: Biological weapons, experimental weapons etc.
    • Extremely unsafe (greatly increases risk)
    • Have to be researched or found in a random event
    • Extremely powerful (so powerful it multiplies by a factor the offense skill)

Of course, a classification makes little sense if not used, I think that adding a little icon at the side of the name of the weapon to classify it, and using that classification to affect the base stats of the weapon might be a good way to improve the weapons concept without adding too much to complexity.

For example, a chainsaw with base 3 offense skill would increase the risk of the mission by 50% (due to being melee) and be more common than a machine gun with base 3 offense skill, that would have a bonus of 50% to its offense skill (due to being medium range).

Dividing the offense skills of the survivors between the different types of weapons sounds a like too much, but you're the expert.

Batch: Special Detecting Equipment (SDE) and Additional Equipment (AE)

(SeymourG) Maybe special pieces of equipment (SDE) could help raise the chance that one of your characters would spot a zombie before it spots them. Along with that, surveillance cameras could be taken from malls to be able to survey the edges of you fort so you'll know in advance when a bunch of zombies are about to attack.

Additional Equipment (AE) slots are extra slots where you can store other pieces of equipment (duh). I don't know how they should be unlocked... Maybe reaching level 10 in something? But that should be made very difficult since this will have like 30 levels in it... Any ideas, people?

(Zambia) All the action in the earlier games take place during the day. What if the player takes actions during the day and the zombies act during the night? Then folks out overnight on missions need light to succeed. Light sources could range from chem-lights (low ranges, low detection) to flashlights (good visibility, moderate detection, takes a free hand to use) to miner's helmets (high vis, high detection, provides brain protection) to military style NVGs (good visibility, no detection). The fort could be outfitted with floodlights once you get the power on to help during the zombie attacks. Before then, you could set up fire pots.

Building upgrade items

RachniKiller (talk).

Solar Panels: crates power.

Glass: allows you to upgrade farms into Green houses.

Garden plots: allows you to grow a small amount of food on a building roof top (likely fraction .1-.5 they would add up).

Coffee Maker: increase effectiveness of people on guard.

Freezer: allows you to Store more food (requires power).

tractor: increases food production.

Chemistry Equipment: can be used to help Labs or Hospitals.

Crazy items

Woolfe (talk) Look this is totally inspired by the movie Braindead.(Find it and watch it if you haven't already) But there should be some crazy stuff. Things that just shouldn't be used that way, and shouldn't work, or things that are totally one off etc. For example, the trusty lawnmower strapped to your chest as a weapon against the zombies, totally impractical and stupid, but funny as hell and theoretically possible. I am sure there is other stuff in the same vein that people could think of. But that's a personal favourite :-)--Woolfe (talk) 03:21, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

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