NOTICE: This wiki is read-only. Rebuild 3's design phase is over and it's now released. Thank you for all your help!
What do you mean by "Downloadable"?
The first Rebuild took 3 months to write alone, the second one took half a year with a halftime artist... for Rebuild 3 I'd like to take an entire year and a fulltime artist and do it up right, fit for Steam and Good Old Games and Win/Mac desktops near you. I'm guessing this is the most controversial thing I'll be saying on this wiki. I just hope that if you liked the free Flash Rebuild 1&2, you'll at least want to see what happens if I make a full-blown game out of it.
How much would the game cost?
I'm thinking it might start at $9.99 for the PC Steam version, and $3.99 for the mobile iOS/Android version. The (more limited, but still fully playable) Flash version will be free.
(MasonMarsh) I think $7.99 is a reasonable price, but, hey, you do all the work, so you can set the price, I don't understand the intricacies of Actionscript and art.
(deadzflame ) 9.99 sounds good to me. Where the game is going to take a lot of work.
(DragoonIII) to tell the truth i think 8 - 10 bucks is worth it if you are going to continute to make games like this but like i read lower giving a free version if unlocked on insane would be nice (as well as if you make it a remember thing like a cookie for those who cant log in because they made an account but lost info(we are human we make mistakes) or something)
(Greygrey7) I think updates and extra stuff for making the game even more epic would make it be worth $10 upward
(Francis) Sorry to be selfish and (maybe) rude, I know you had lotsa hardwork for this indev game. Maybe make it free? :(
Woolfe (talk) Based on the fun I have had with the flash and mobile version. I would probably pay a fair bit for this game. I would say dependant on content I would be happy to pay up to AU$20. I am guessing AU$10 is probably closer to what you will have content wise, either way I am pretty sure when/if you kickstart this, I will be throwing a chunk of cash into it. Because I think you guys deserve to be supported for your efforts.
(rasa13) Well for starters don't make the flash version seem like a demo. mobile version can have a few more bells and whistles like say more weapons? as for platform flash and android sound like a lovely combination, but please make it free, at least for the flash version. as for the mobile version, if you have to put a price on it then $5.99 seems reasonable, not too cheap and not so expensive. but no more than $20 some people might think twice about buying it.
Justice112 (talk) A free flash demo on the online portals would be great, whetting the appetite for a paid game. $9.99 on APP store doesn't sound like a huge stretch IF it's clear in the demo all the greatness you'll have access to in a paid game.
(Rilo) You absolutely deserve to make money off of this game, Rebuild 1 and 2 are among my favorite games. With that said, you may find that a free but somewhat restricted mobile version of the game on iOS/Android would become incredibly popular and you may make more money off of ads or in-app purchases of exclusive content like extra endings/items/larger maps and the like. This would also defeat the android piracy problem so no one would steal the mobile version of the game. As far as the download, I would definitely pay $10-15 dollars for a pc/mac download if it didnt look like a "flash" game. For example, if you sold Rebuild 2 as a download I would probably be a bit reluctant to pay more than a few dollars, but an advanced version with better graphics, exclusive features not found on the kongregate version, and more modes/more gameplay would definitely be worth the cash. Also, a fully playable flash version that was maybe missing some of the advanced graphics and gameplay modes of the full game would definitely be acceptable and could get you more downloads. Those who planned to buy could use it as a "demo" and those who didnt plan to buy would just have a new rebuild that is better than #2 in every way, everyone would be happy!
Will wiki contributors and alpha/beta testers get free copies?
Sarah: Yes, I'll give people who are super helpful a free copy of Rebuild 3 when it comes out, along with alpha access and maybe even their name in the credits. You've all been so awesome and helpful so far, that it's a good thing I'll have infinite copies to give out.
(deadzflame) Thank you Sarah, but remember you do have to make money. You have a lot of work a head of you and its going to be hard. You will deserve it by the end.
(WATM) Ay to that, but we have to remember that this game still is in the idea stage, and so long as people keep giving great ideas, a great game will be made.
(Wizzid) If I have to pay for the game and none or all of my ideas are used, I would be fine with that (specially if I get a discount:P), but nobody is greedy for wanting to make money off of their work.
(WATM) Well said, WIzzid. Gaming is a business, even free games. If the extra effort is put into a game for it to play better and for it to be a more enjoyable experience then I would have no trife with that and I would be glad to purchase it.
(SeymourG) I'm grateful for this, but I'd be willing to pay! It's only $10, all but the poorest of us can afford it. t's just a matter of credit cards, but we'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
Karrachr000 (talk) I agree with Churchgrim... maybe a few free copies to those who you felt were your best contributors and the others get a discount. You are doing a tremendous amount of work and deserve to gain from it.
At last an honest way to play a paid game! Piracy is not cool but not everybody has paypal.
LordBlacktail (talk) So I'm all grateful and stuff, but are you sure it's a good Idea to tell everyone they get a bonus for being helpful? If I hadn't been signed up when I saw this it would have been enough. Also thanks, not sure that my presence qualifies as anything more than just that, a presence, but this is still cool.
Woolfe (talk) Why should we. I personally am contributing in the hopes of getting a game I want to play. If the game is good enough, I'll pay for it, or if it is kickstarted or something I will ante up enough to get a copy. The amount Sarah has been talking about is not onerous, and really contributing to a wiki is not something I would ever consider "work". Just my opinion of course, and I don't mean to offend, I just don't understand this sort of attitude.--Woolfe (talk) 00:16, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Teleportmassive (talk) I'm curious about how many people are responding in the survey that they would pirate this - I wonder if it could be smart to implement a sliding scale system like humble bundle. That way, people could also pay above $10 if they had it to spare. You could implement some price floor (it doesn't make sense for people to buy the game for $0.03, for instance), but at a certain point, the average user would definitely rather pay than torrent (I think it can often be a hassle). It's likely that you'd rather receive an arbitrary amount like $3 for the game rather than nothing - what you'd receive if they just stole it - though you could also set the bottom end of the scale at $6 or $8. I totally think you deserve to make money off of this (and to have Rebuild reach the status of other professional made, long-gameplay paid games), since you've worked really hard on the other games and released them for free! (Sophie)
Sarahnorthway (talk) In the second survey 35% of people said they'd (maybe/probably/definitely) pirate Rebuild 3. Pay-what-you-want is a very cool idea and I'll look into that possibility for direct pc sales. But I get the impression that most people don't have a problem with the price of games like this, so much as the act of paying at all.
But... but... what about Flash??
There will be a "light" flash version of Rebuild 3. Yes, you might call it a demo, but not an obnoxious one. It'll be on Kongregate and all the other portals, and will let you play through the tutorial and a few scenarios as many times as you want. Basically like Rebuild 2. The cities will be random for endless replayability, but some of the scenarios and content will only be available in the download version. Likely music, movies and visual snazz will have to be toned down to keep the filesize small enough to distribute.
I could add an option to unlock the full version in your browser once you buy the game, like we're doing for Incredipede. But that would require a server and login system (would use Kong's login system on kongregate.com).
(SPW184) I think the downloadable version should be unlocked for free if you complete the game on an "Insane" difficulty. It would be nice to have a free way to get it, but a way that you can pay for it. To measure how many are out you could direct them to a site where they would imput a code. Just an idea. And then one person can repost that code everywhere so it'll come up with a Google search. What's wrong with developers actually earning money for their work?
(SeymourG) If you want to expand on the Insane difficulty (which I disagree with), then you could make 1 use codes that expire in like an hour. Or have people manually send in screenshots.
(SarahNorthway) I like this idea more the more I think about it. I'm not sure about passing out Steam/etc download codes, but they'd be 1-use only. More likely I'd set it up on Kongregate/etc so you had to be logged in when you beat Impossible, and forever after could log into that Kong account to play the full version online. I might need to make Impossible harder (which is going to happen anyway). Hopefully this wouldn't blow up in my face with everyone in the world hating Rebuild3 because Impossible's so hard. People could fiddle with savefiles to cheat it, but that's probably harder than just pirating the game, so whatever.
Honestly i feel you are forgetting what kongregate did for you. why not be a bit more generous when putting it on kongregate in which you did like the last rebuild games but take away certain scenarios and other such things like factions,tech,buildings, and gameplay so it is less but like previous people have made it worse the community will love you for this.- Dalno
(SeymourG) Just thought of a problem, fairly big when it comes to this section. The problem with Kong, Newgrounds, and all the other main game sites, is that they have a FILE SIZE LIMIT!!! So if you were to make a full blown game, it'd probably be several times greater than the max, so only a demo would fit.
LordBlacktail (talk) Sounds like a great idea, just maybe only extra content instead of full content. Just add a few scenarios to the flash as unlockable once you beat the game on Insane. Maybe tie the unlock to a save file instead of using a code, codes are a slippery slope that never gets better. Also I hate codes so you may just be getting caught up in my personal war here, sorry. :/
Are you Serious?
Okay, none of this is set in stone yet. Maybe the art won't work out or I'll get sick of working on the game, release after six months and skip the whole download thing. But ideally I'd like to make a version of Rebuild that will stand up there with other great games. A deeper, more complex game. A longer, more fulfilling game. A better looking, better feeling, all around better game.
(RusMolot) +1 for downloadable, it allows for options that web browsers limit you with (for now) such as save game size. The more depth a game has, the more room it needs for save games, browser games don't (often) use the user's hard disk space, and those that do, are either just browser-based launch screens, but the game itself is on the hard disk, or they have alternate mechanics that let them run online without using hard disk space. You can always take a full game and section a characteristic portion of the game to make it a flash game, but if all you were planning on is a flash game, it becomes difficult to expand that to a download-worthy game.
[Loqman] according to what i read at the last posts i'm sure this game will work better only if you had made the game more enhanced on the point that made everyone attracted to it ! leading a government !
I'd like to localize Rebuild 3 into French, German, and possibly Spanish & Italian, for starters. For Rebuild 2 result text looks like "[He] found [himself] a [equipment] at the old [building]" which might come out "She found herself a pistol at the old school" (I made sure equipment names all started with a consonant so I wouldn't have to deal with a/an). But other languages have gendered nouns, verbs and even adjectives. Making it dynamic is going to be a challenge, and finding translators who can deal with the amount of text is going to be tough.
Sarahnorthway (talk) Localization seems like a worse and more time-consuming idea the more I think about it. :( For the first version I may try to just pull the text out into string files, then after release consider the challenge of translating dynamic text.
Kakinaga (talk) Hmm... I can translate into Indonesian. "Bahasa Gaul" (informal), "Bahasa Indonesia" (formal one), and "Javanese" (harsh or polite ones). So, total 2 language (with 2 different style each). Note: Java is an ethnic of Indonesia.
Spanish is definitely a must have, there are more (native) spanish speaking people than english ones, and this game would probably be very popular in Mexico, at least due to the culture (you know, "el dia de los muertos" and all that)
P.S: I might help with the translation or at least spellcheck
(Rilo) Google announced new app translation services built into Google Play at Gooogle IO 2013, so they mobile app may be much easier to translate for android at least.
Sarahnorthway (talk) I wonder if fans of the game would like to mod Rebuild 3? I could conceivably move the configuration settings, faction stats, heck even events to external plaintext files. I'm not sure that this would be a benefit to me though. Much easier to just release the source code, which I'm also considering. :)
We Are The META That sounds like a wonderful idea, I mean some of the greatest indie games got much of their popularity, and dedicated fans, from the open source code. Take the game M&B Warband, for example, that game has one of the biggest and greatest modding communities ever. They would have been dead long ago had there not been the open source for modding. I think even the option to change the game the way people would like it would be a great thing to use; I mean we could also possibly exchange mods created by user, and maybe some created by you.
Karrachr000 (talk) This could be made easier if it does get released through Steam. Personally I am not sure how a game becomes compatible with the steam workshop, but it does make finding and installing mods super easy.
Woolfe (talk) Modding is a way to give your game further life, even if it means it might end up totally different. Look at Arma3 and DayZ or Halflife and CounterStrike. Don't turn your back on modders, they can keep your game living for years after you have moved on to work on other things.
Of course, a level editor would be a great idea, especially for minmaxers like me and to greatly (emphasis) greatly improve the game lifespan.
It's like in fantastic contraption where there was an editor, but it was paid so it lost its audience.
DominateEye is too lazy to code wiki script right: I think that there should be an official section (perhaps on the official Rebuild website?) where players can post mods, and also some sort of wiki page where people can post ideas that they'd like in mods. Many of the ideas here are gold, and a serious modder could easily implement at least a few of these. Steam Workshop integration too, def 100% yolo swag.
Discussion: Paid vs Freemium vs Free
I'll try to be (more) objective with this if I can.
- Pro: A good way to win money
- Pro: Might be a good way to fund long-term development
- Pro: You might add a lot of extra features in a paid platform
- Con: You might not win too much money thanks to piracy
- Con: You're going to lose the respect of some players and some of your audience
- Freemium (Free but with premium things, like extra weapons or stronger soldiers)
- Pro: A good way to win money
- Con: You're going to lose the respect of most of your players and lose a bit of your audience
- Con: You're going to spoil the experience to many hardcore players (if there's a fast track, why should I work so hard?)
- Pro: You will have a very broad audience and you'll keep the respect of your players
- Pro: No risk of spoiling the game to anyone, nor piracy, nor anything
- Con: Might not be as profitable as the other options
Personally, though I think that free is always better, maybe a paid version would be OK. But please, no freemium, that's the worst thing you could do with your games.
Sarahnorthway (talk) I assume by "free" you mean "paid for by ads", because we all know respect don't put dinner on the table. To put "not as profitable" in perspective, the ad revenue from Rebuild 2 would just about pay my art & music costs for this game.
(Rilo) I say you should hit all three. If you had a paid download, a free flash version, and a freemium mobile app you would get the most downloads/respect/money. The only nuance with freemium is that the game must be fully playable! The purchases should be for extra content like larger maps, extra game modes, more items, special characters, unique buildings, or possibly even customization features like character and building customization. The base game should definitely be available for free though.
Miguelinileugim (talk) Oh God no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For the sake of god, don't listen to him Sarah!!!!! We only need to make Rebuild freemium to destroy it's reputation! I don't care too much if you make it paid, but freemium no please!
Sarahnorthway (talk) I may well make a free unlockable mobile version down the road because that's become a standard, but it wouldn't replace the $3 single-purchase version. That's as far as it goes - I do think it's possible make good (as opposed to evil) freemium games where you can buy gold or items with real money, but I don't think it's right for Rebuild. I've also talked about making the "light" Flash version unlock full content for $10, but this didn't work out so well with Incredipede. I think it'd be better to treat the downloadable version as a completely separate game that needs to be played from your desktop, whereas the free Flash version can only be played on websites.
(Ultimate11) You could lose money with piracy, or use piracy to your advantage. McPixel, for example, used The Pirate Bay to help distribute the game and encourage people to buy the game. The concept worked heavily. Check out This Article
When people are more exposed to the game, they may want some copies to spread with your friends and such. Therefore, if we're gonna have a Paid version for the PC version, we should take advantage of all the advertising mediums out there.
Now, I don't encourage user piracy (except for some bad publishers with bad policies, EA for one) but piracy could be used to spread the word, so let's consider it.
(Ultimate11) Um...no. I don't think you're right. :| Why do you suppose I'm here anyways? To trick a developer to ruin a product? Get your facts correct!
McPixel used piracy to advertise his game- which and encouraged users to donate/buy the game to help the developer with said expenses.
Therefore, I recommend that she take advantage of the good resources available, and make good use of modern methods.
And for the record, I did say that I don't encourage user piracy on GOOD GAMES (once again, except for those that should get pirated for bad polices- EA, UBISOFT, etc- the big, greedy publishers.)
Actually, I don't consider P2P traffic as piracy, I consider it as more "preservation" than "burglary." (I meant to say burglary.)
Sarahnorthway (talk) I don't have a problem with piracy. I was young and broke once and I stole AAA games and $800 software suites. I make it a habit now to overpay for bundles and kickstarter games, which I can do because people actually bought Rebuild Mobile even though you could play it for free on pc and it takes about 2 seconds to pirate Android games. Anyway, endorsing piracy sounds good to me and I'll suggest it to anyone who complains about the free version sucking. If I detect a stolen copy, I'll put a little extra message in: "hello pirate! please buy this game if you like it so I can afford to keep making games! kthxbye".
- Woolfe (talk) Nice to hear. I was in that position as well. I still refuse to purchase certain AAA titles nowadays but that is because they charge Aussies a premium just because we are "Aussies". But my Steam list of games is in the hundreds, I regularly buy indie games off Steam and GoG and others(And I usually by the AAA titles when they have dropped to the same price as US). I buy the occasional IOS game only because I have a work Iphone. I also buy a few Android games. On Android I only buy if I can try first. Just cause its a small amount of money doesn't mean I want to waste it. Actually on the whole Piracy and Android thing. It is interesting that "piracy" is considered high on Android, but the figures actually suggest that if you remove the countries that are "unable to use googleplay" from the piracy list(IE the countries that don't have a legal way of purchasing), the figures end up being pretty similar.
(Just kidding, I'm atheist, but high five for what you wrote!)
i think you shouldn't put this game for sale ! because this is not a huge game and whatever you make you will not be able to make something more greater than (last Stand Union city) (Decision 2) (Sands Of coliseum)!
think about it ! if you put this game on sale there will be maximum 50,000 ... (will they be more?) for buyers and other people will play the hacked one ! and you will loose the advertisements
- if you spoil the game of those who are good gamers by making available some extra features, nothing will happen to your audience because those guys are few and they don't harm any where !
but i think about something better !
- make a free version and tell the players they should finish the game at all modes and it should last them four days of playing ! then available the premium mode that player won't need to work hard to gain that an in actual word you will have all of those buyers or even more !
- (7.99$ premium mode , 9.99$ Full Premium mode[environment + Premium mode], 7.99$ Buy full Environment)
- in premium mode player doesn't need to play the game for four days and instantly unlocks the full virsion
- in buy full environment every survivor has his own story and extra clothes for players and available some features just like automatic orders (don't need too tell every survivor what to do and you can manage groups that they do orders after order, it means assigning a group and giving them ten orders for ten turns) or enable them to recruit the Gustav so they have a shop for themselves !
- full premium mode contains both , but the buyers will not be sorry for buying this and they will be happy because they saved 6 $ by buying at and i know "the buyer always is the buyer" you will have all those 50,000 buyers
because if somebody wants to pay for this game he will pay and forcing them to pay reduces your respect !
do not force them by this : if you don't pay you won't play the game ! force them by this : if you pay you can save more time and enjoy (but tell them you support us to develop this game)
this game can be developed to a good MMO game and there is a lot of work remained for it too ;)
Sorry but your idea is horrible for players and Sarah, she'll lose a lot of players and money, it's no use. If the game is paid, OK, if the game is free, OK, if there's a short free game as a demo and a long paid and downloadable game, OK. But those tricks of yours won't work out well.
Max24833 Although I'm willing to pay for the game, Freemium is terrible. It ruins games by adding an easy path. I'd prefer to buy the game rather than get it free and know I have to pay or work harder than I should.
Necrocreture (talk) Pleas don't make it paid, i like the version on Kongregate, i wouldn't ever play it anywhere else, though i would understand adding more features to a paid version (because the Kongregate games can only take so much space) though if you make it only paid i'll just buy full version then copy it to make a free version. :) But i have a suggestion: make a free version and a paid version (as already suggested) but instead of a "demo" sort of thing with the free version just make the full (paid) version the free one with extra content. Sarahnorthway (talk) This is exactly what I plan to do.